May 13, 2026
Tony Martignetti: Illuminating Hidden Brilliance through Leadership, Glassblowing, and Poetry
Jessica talks with Tony Martignetti, Leadership Advisor, Artist, & Creative Guide.
Tony Martignetti is a leadership advisor who helps leaders navigate complexity without losing themselves. With over 30 years across high-tech and life sciences, he has worked where innovation, pressure, and uncertainty collide. His defining insight: brilliance doesn’t disappear in organizations; it goes dormant when people are asked to fragment themselves to perform. Through Inspired Purpose Partners, Tony designs experiences that integrate purpose, presence, creativity, and connection to drive meaningful impact. He is the author of Climbing the Right Mountain and Campfire Lessons for Leaders, host of The Virtual Campfire Podcast, and a keynote speaker known for creating “campfire” spaces for honest, expansive dialogue.
Follow Tony and his work at:
https://linktr.ee/inspiredcoach
https://www.ipurposepartners.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonymartignett1/
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About The Ampersand Manifesto:
What happens when you refuse to choose just one path?
On The Ampersand Manifesto, host Jessica Wan sits down with “the most interesting people at the dinner party” – those who have made their mark in two or more seemingly different worlds. Through candid conversations, we explore what it takes to navigate multiple callings, find the connection points between them, and redefine success on our own terms. Together, we’re co-creating The Ampersand Manifesto: principles for leading a multi-passionate life.
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About your host, Jessica Wan:
Executive Coach | Classical Singer | Former Marketing Leader & Tech Executive
Jessica helps founders and leaders make the invisible visible. With 20+ years of experience scaling brands like Apple, Smule, and the San Francisco Opera, and as an ICF-certified executive coach, she provides the clarity and strategy needed to lead bravely and find fulfillment in a multi-passionate life.
Work with Jessica: Book a Free Intro Call
Join The Cohort: An Ampersand Community for Dual-Career Professionals
Follow the Journey: @ampersandmanifesto
Connect: Jessica’s LinkedIn
Listen: Singing Excerpts
~
Credits
Co-produced and hosted by Jessica Wan
Co-produced, edited, sound design, and original music by Carlos Schmitt
Transcript
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We are these black boxes that
are just, you know, walking
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00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,840
around without really knowing
what's on, what's hidden inside.
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And what I came to believe is
that when we find that spark,
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the inner light, that's when our
brilliance becomes apparent.
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But we have to be willing to
really do the work to find out
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what it is that's missing, what
is not illuminated inside of us
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and bring next to the surface.
I'm excited to talk with Tony
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Martinetti, the Leadership
advisor who helps leaders
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navigate complexity without
losing themselves.
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With over 30 years across high
tech and life sciences, he has
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worked where innovation,
pressure, and uncertainty
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collide.
His defining insight brilliance
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doesn't disappear in
organizations, it goes dormant
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when people are asked to
fragment themselves to perform.
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Through inspired purpose
partners, Tony designs
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experiences that integrate
purpose, presence, creativity,
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and connection to drive
meaningful impact.
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He is the author of Climbing the
Right Mountain and Campfire
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Lessons for Leaders, host of the
Virtual Campfire Podcast, and a
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keynote speaker known for
crafting campfire spaces for
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honest, expansive dialogue.
Tony, welcome to the show.
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Well, thank you so much for
having me here and I'll just say
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you are a wonderful guest on my
show, which was just wonderful
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to have you on and I'm so
thrilled to be here.
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Yeah, it's so nice to be in
conversation with people that
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you admire and you feel kind of
like just mutually in the same
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orbit.
And that's exactly how I feel
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about you.
You and I were first introduced
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by a mutual coach friend, Kathy
Onetto, who is also wonderful.
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And you and I also had the
chance to collaborate on an
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article titled The Future of
Leadership is Multifaceted for
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Fast Company.
And I'm curious, just to start
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off, how do you see multifaceted
leadership coming up in your
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work these days?
Yeah, I mean, for me personally,
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it it's one thing, but what I
see in general, for other people
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it's another.
And I'll kind of explain both.
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You know, for me, it was, you
know, really holding back the
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artistic side of who I was and
seeing it as something that I
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didn't, didn't belong in the
work I was doing.
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Even after coming into the world
of coaching and facilitation and
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helping people to learn and
grow, I felt like still
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something was missing, even
though I had traded my corporate
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hat for my independent
facilitator hat.
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And the art part of me, the
artist part of me was still on
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the sidelines waiting to be
expressed.
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But when I did everything
changed the the sense of
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aliveness that I brought into
the room and my own expression,
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but also how I shifted people
completely changed.
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So that's one thing.
But what I also see in other
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people is that people sometimes
get into these patterns where
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they're just kind of going
through the motions and just
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doing their work and they're
performing their title, which
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maybe gets you by for a period
of time.
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But at some point the light
starts to dim and you start
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saying like, why don't I feel a
connection to the work or why am
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I feeling disengaged?
Was because they're leaving half
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of themselves outside or they're
not feeling like they're fully
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expressed in their work.
And so, yeah, that's where I see
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a lot of the people who I work
with is that they feel like
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there's something missing and
that the missing part is them.
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Wow, yeah, I want to get deeper
into this.
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How did you diagnose for
yourself?
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What was the cause?
Right?
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Like I think people sometimes
feel that something's off or
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they're not feeling as alive,
vibrant.
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How did you know for you that
the art, the artist side was a
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big part of it?
Yeah.
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I think some of the sometimes
you just like I said, there's an
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autopilot element that goes on.
You just kind of continue to go
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about your business, but you
feel like, OK, you know, I don't
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know, I feel like there could be
another gear.
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I mean, you've probably asked
yourself this question.
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I'm sure I'm not alone.
Like thinking, is this it is
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this is all there is to
experience in my work, even when
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you're doing work that you love.
But that sense of maybe
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existential questioning is what
comes up.
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And you start thinking, I need
to find that other gear.
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And that other gear really comes
from questioning, OK, well, what
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if I did something different?
What if I were to pivot or
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create something different?
And sometimes it's not about
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leaving the work.
It's about, you know, changing
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the way you look at the work.
And so that's that's how I
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started to see this show up is
the sense of like, I think I
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need something different in this
work.
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Now I'll just point out one
thing this the moment that
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really made me think differently
about this was a visit to a
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museum.
So I'm happy to talk a little
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bit about that if you like.
Yes, please.
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OK, so about two or three years
ago I was in a walking through a
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museum in Salem, MA, the PBD
Essex Museum.
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And it just happened to stumble
across this this exhibit called
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All the Flowers Are for Me,
which is a beautiful, beautiful
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metal carved box that was
hanging from the ceiling in this
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room.
And inside of this box, there is
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nothing's fancy about the box
itself besides like intricate
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carvings and what have you that
you know, were laser cut I
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guess.
And they put a light inside.
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And when the light shone out,
this pattern, this beautiful
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pattern just shines a lot
everywhere, the ceiling, the
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walls across anyone who walks in
the room.
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And so when I walked in, I was
just completely blown away.
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I was like, wow, like this
changes everything.
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I didn't know what it meant, but
I knew at some point it just
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kind of connected to me that
there's this is what we are.
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We are these black boxes that
are just, you know, walking
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00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,560
around without really knowing
what's on, what's hidden inside.
107
00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:43,680
And what I came to believe is
that when we find that spark,
108
00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:48,560
the inner light, there's that's
when our brilliance becomes
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00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,560
apparent.
But we have to be willing to
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00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,680
really do the work to find out
what it is that's missing, what
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is not illuminated inside of us
and bring next to the surface.
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For me, it happened to be art.
It doesn't have to be art for
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everyone, but it could be
something that you're just, you
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know, you stuff down over layers
and layers of performative work
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that has let you say, OK, well,
this doesn't belong in my
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professional life, but that's
where we got it wrong.
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Yeah, this is a great segue into
talking a little bit about your
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book.
So we a couple weeks ago, you
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and I finally got a chance to
meet each other in person, which
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was so wonderful.
We were at South by Southwest
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where you were launching your
book Illuminating Hidden
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Brilliance.
Talk to us about from that
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moment, that spark in the museum
to your book, What?
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What was it like working on this
project?
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And yeah, what do you hope
people will get from it?
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Yeah, it's a great question.
First of all, this book, as much
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as it's the most important book
to me because I feel like it's
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it's the strongest message that
I could ever have given as I
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feel it's important right now.
It's also important for people
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to live the most meaningful life
they can.
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And so for for me, it was a
journey of really embodying
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everything that I had said that
I was missing and, and the, the
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work that I had spent years
trying to figure out what's what
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is missing in my life and then
going on the quest to learn from
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others as to what was missing in
their lives.
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And so through this process, I
feel like this book embodies a
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lot of those elements.
And it took me not as long as I
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thought to write because I, I
was kind of receiving a lot of
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these messages over the period
of time.
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And so when I sat down to write,
it just flowed out of me almost
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like it was like divine
intervention, if you will.
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So, so it worked in that way,
but I will say that I have to
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tell people when I when you
write a book, you don't want to
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have the questions all answered
in advance.
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You let the question be
something that you're really
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seeking to answer.
And so as I started to put pen
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to paper, things started to
really evolve.
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I started seeing more parts of
the story and got in dialogue
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with people and heard more of
their stories.
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And so the book really evolved
in a very beautiful way.
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So, and I think you yourself
included, I mean really
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wonderful.
And when we got into
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conversation, it helped to
inform like more of the book
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from that so.
Yeah, How did art really come
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back into your life, and what
does your artistic practice look
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like these days?
And it's a, it's a hard balance
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for sure.
I know you can probably relate
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to this, to find that balance
between running a business, you
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know, paying the bills and
trying to find time for time for
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artistic expression.
So for me, it's come back to me
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in many different ways #1
glassblowing is a big part of
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what I do, which I love.
It's just, there's something
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about the practice that is
really delicate, but yet also
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very, very intricate and, and
surprising when you have this
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end product, which you don't
know how it's going to end up.
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And there's also the elements
you're playing with this, you
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know, you have the, the sand,
you have the, the, the heat, all
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the fire, all the things that
are happening all at once.
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And so you don't like, you got
to be very careful with all
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those things.
It's not something you just play
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with.
So Long story short, that's one
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of them.
The other thing is poetry.
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Now, I had dabbled with poetry a
long time ago, but I just kind
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of like, oh, no big deal.
Not really a thing that I do.
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But for me, as I got to this
place where I was having a hard
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time expressing myself
emotionally, I found poet to be
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A to be a great gateway for the
things that I just couldn't put
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into normal writing.
So I, I really went off and
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started to explore this medium
and spent a lot of time doing
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it.
And so I'd probably write at
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least a poem a a month, if not
more.
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And it just really comes from
wherever inspiration strikes.
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Wow, I'm really seeing a fire
and light theme with so much of
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your work.
Your podcast is called the
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Virtual Campfire.
You have been hosting it since
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2020 and you're prolific.
You've done well over 300
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episodes.
I I looked that up.
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What do you hope your listeners
take away from your podcast?
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Yeah, and I, I want to connect
the dots between, you know, this
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illumination and the, the
campfire, which besides the fire
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element, which is also nice,
There's when I started the
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podcast, I, you know, my whole
journey was, you know, really
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getting into conversation with
people who have been through
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moments in their lives that have
have ignited their gifts into
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their world.
And what I, I really started to
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see as I had these conversations
was that like early days,
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there's, you know, maybe in
childhood or in our early adult
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lives, there are things that we
get into because our, you know,
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almost like our heart pulls us
into it.
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And then life gets in the way
and we start to kind of retract
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and fragment and start to do
things that say, oh, well, I
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guess I should be doing
something different because
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that's what I'm being forced
into or being pulled into.
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But then we come back to it.
It's almost like as a rhythm,
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we, you just say, I'm being
pulled back into the thing that
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is most meaningful to me.
Maybe it was a childhood, you
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know, childhood passion that you
had and that becomes comes back.
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And so that's one of the
patterns I saw a lot in the
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people I interviewed.
There's also things that happen
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where a traumatic life event
might just say, hey, look,
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enough is enough.
I need to do something
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different, you know.
So it's really about looking
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back, taking inventory, finding
out what you left behind and
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using that as the medium to
redefine the path forward.
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Let's take a moment to think
about this question.
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What have you left behind that
you might want to bring back
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00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:35,280
into your life?
Are you an Ampersand?
218
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,400
Looking for community
inspiration and resources?
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00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:43,200
Come join us in the cohort where
we help you grow and scale your
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00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,240
creative and professional
aspirations.
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00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,440
If you're looking for more
dedicated support, ioffer
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00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,800
executive coaching for business
leaders, people managers,
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00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,840
creatives, and of course,
Ampersands.
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00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,520
Find out more about the cohort
and one-on-one coaching at
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00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,200
jessica1.com.
Now back to the show.
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You are not only involved with
virtual campfires, but also real
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ones.
You've climbed many mountains,
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including summiting Mount
Kilimanjaro, and you shared that
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it wasn't as much about the peak
as much as the process.
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And I I'm curious what metaphors
for leadership and life you
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gained from that experience.
Yeah, I mean, I'll start from
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just the moment of saying go
that I'm going to climb this
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mountain.
It's like it's committing to a
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goal that's bigger than you than
than your current place of where
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you are.
So when I wrote my first book,
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Climbing the Right Mountain,
someone said to me, you know,
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what's the next mountain you're
going to climb?
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What's the next thing you're
going to do?
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And I said to myself, without
even letting my, my mind catch
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up with my heart, Kilimanjaro.
And, and so at that moment, that
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was about a year before I, I
actually went and did it,
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putting that up into the world.
It actually was the, for the
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first time, it cemented in my
mind that that's what I'm going
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to do.
And so I started to do the work
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to train, to make myself prepare
myself for that process.
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But it's first the commitment
that I made.
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And so I think that's a good
lesson for us.
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Sometimes you just have to say,
even if I'm not ready, what can
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I do to say the thing and then
commit to the process.
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So that's what I did.
And then you get on the climb.
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00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,280
And that climb is, it's
something about the altitude and
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00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:45,600
the changes and, and all of the
different adaptability elements
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you have to create for yourself
to say.
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00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:52,520
It's not about a, a run up the
mountain though.
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Trust me, there are a lot of
people who are from Tanzania who
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could literally run that
mountain in probably a day just
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because they're so used to it.
But but for the average folk,
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you know, we have to take our
time.
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We have to go slow.
We have to, you know, make sure
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we're pacing ourselves because
if you try to go too fast,
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00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,920
you're ending, you're going to
end up exhausted and burnt out.
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Isn't that a great metaphor for
business?
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00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:22,920
Right.
Yeah, I love that you just said
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yes.
Go before you're ready.
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Yeah, and don't go alone too.
I mean, there's that's the other
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part of this which I didn't
mention, which is that, you
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00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,640
know, nothing great happens on
your own.
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You know, I may have been
climbing, you know, step by step
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with my own 2 feet.
But there was the encouragement,
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the the camaraderie of the
people who I climbed with that
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really made it all possible.
Yeah.
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You shared with me that one of
your proudest moments was
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00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:58,360
leaving a successful corporate
career yourself to step into an
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00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,000
uncertain path that was more
aligned with who you were
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00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:06,359
becoming.
How did you personally realize
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this pivot from when you knew
that it was no longer the right
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path to taking the actionable
steps forward?
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Well.
Fear is a great motivator.
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No, I mean, at, at first there
was this element of like, I, I
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need to take my, my life in my
own hands.
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I need to take my, the, my
destiny in my own hands.
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And because I felt like the the
way things are going weren't
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aligned with who I was being.
And if I wanted to have the life
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that was more fulfilling and
more aligned with who I really
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00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,600
was, I needed to do something
different.
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00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,920
And so that's what led me down
this path of taking the leap out
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00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,880
of the corporate world and
trying something different.
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But I always say in the back of
my mind that like, you know
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00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,080
what?
Nothing is permanent.
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00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:06,640
There's always, there's always a
way back, even though sometimes
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00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,760
it's not going to be easy and
sometimes there's going to be,
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you know, people will have a
perception of who you are, but
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that's fine.
You know, I think everyone
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00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,400
thinks that every move you make
is a fine, a final move.
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That's not true.
So as I made that leap out, one
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00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,720
of the things that I, I
connected to is there's really
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two quotes.
I always think about #1 if
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00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,120
you're feeling, if you're
willing to feel everything, you
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00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:36,880
can have anything That meant
that I need to attach to this,
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00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,440
this feeling of, all right, this
is going to be ups and downs.
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00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,720
The emotional roller coaster of
starting something new is, is a
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00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,680
real thing.
And it, it lasts me longer than
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00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:52,960
I thought and still does.
But that expectation of the ups
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00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,600
and downs is what makes the
journey worth it.
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00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,880
Because if it was all just a,
you know, everything's great,
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00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,080
then you're not going to really
enjoy the, the fruits of that
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00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,760
labor.
You know, that's one.
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00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,280
The other thing was this quote
that I don't know where it came
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00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:13,640
from, but that amateurs compete
and professionals create.
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00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:19,040
And that has driven my mindset
around how do I get in community
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00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:23,400
with the right people who are
even, you know, people who are
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00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,480
peers, people who are in the
same industry and doing the same
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00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,480
thing, learning from them at
humbly, but also sharing with
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00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,000
them so that we don't have to
always be thinking how do I beat
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00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,600
them to the to the punch, but
instead, how do we build a
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00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:42,240
bigger pie?
And you have built a lot of that
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00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,320
pie.
You're, you're a tremendous
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00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,920
creator in terms of writing your
podcast.
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00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,920
How do you cultivate your
creativity?
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00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,080
And, and I think by creativity,
I mean both the being creative
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00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:00,360
side and also just the creating,
getting, getting the words out
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00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:03,480
there, getting the stories out
there.
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00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:07,600
Yeah, I mean, I'm going to use
the cliche term of I collect a
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00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,040
ton of dots and then I connect
them later.
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00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,640
You know, there's just a, you
know, life is like, you know, as
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00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,360
you're navigating through your
day, as you're walking around
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00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:21,080
the streets, going to museums,
wherever you're going, there's,
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00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,000
there's inspiration everywhere
if you're willing to actually
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00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,800
open your eyes and see it.
And so I am like doing that even
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00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,520
in, in sessions with clients,
you know, I'm collecting
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00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,520
information that I'm like,
that's an interesting insight.
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00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:37,960
I don't know where that's going
to land yet, but I'm going to,
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00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,920
I'm going to take it in.
And when I do, then I have some
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00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:47,080
time usually on a weekend.
Why I call them my weekly spark.
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00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:51,000
And in that weekly spark, I'm
organizing myself around what's
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00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,160
next.
But I'm also looking back and
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00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:57,960
I'm saying what happened and
I'm, I'm trying to also look at
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00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,840
what are the threads that I want
to pull deeper and which ones do
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00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,360
I want to say like, oh, maybe
later, you know, so that
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00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,640
organizing is about really
connecting dots that are
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00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:10,720
necessary to, to, to take
something deeper.
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00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,200
Yeah, lots of synthesis,
reflection.
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I love it.
And I'm glad you said that word
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synthesis 'cause I think that's,
that's the thing that people who
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00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:24,520
really are great creators are,
are able to do synthesize really
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00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,720
well.
They don't have to be all
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00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,280
original all the time.
It's sometimes it's like taking
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00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,680
from elements that they seem
like, oh, you know, would it be
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00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,640
so cool if you were to combine
like, you know, a Mozart piece
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00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,440
with like Metallica and like
whatever, you know, see what
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00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,320
happens.
You know, that's a probably a
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00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:42,760
bad example, but you know what I
mean.
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00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,680
The fun and interesting mash ups
that maybe haven't been done
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00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:52,200
before.
What do you think ties together
355
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,520
all of your work, from
leadership advising and speaking
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00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,960
to being an artist and an
explorer and running your
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00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:03,720
podcast?
Yeah, I think that the constant
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00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:05,280
thread and there's two things
I'll say.
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00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:10,160
First of all, the the reality
that there's always more to
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00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:14,080
explore and there's always, you
know, something that I can
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00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,320
learn.
So that beginners mindset of,
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00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,560
you know, knowing that I'm far
from having all the answers.
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00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,760
And whenever like people say
like, oh, you know, I love that
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00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,880
insight or love your insights,
whatever, whatever I'm like,
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00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,680
that's great.
And I'm not trying to diminish
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00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,640
that.
I'll, I'll take the, the, the,
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00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,720
the recognition, but I'm always
feeling like, you know, there's
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00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,280
so much more that to, to, to
uncover here.
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00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,920
And so I'm always feeling like a
beginner on everything that I'm
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00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:50,200
doing so.
And on a practical level, how do
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00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,520
you think about the work that
you're doing in terms of your
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00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,200
time and energy?
It sounds like you make the time
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00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,160
to reflect every week.
What about your your weekdays?
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00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,880
Like what do they look like?
Well, I mean, not always fun,
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00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,160
but you know, I just like, no, I
don't mean it like that.
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00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,320
I mean it's it's I have my crazy
weeks for sure.
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00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,680
And, you know, especially when
there's fires that you put out,
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00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,960
as, you know, running a business
can often be that way when you
379
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,960
have things that have, you know,
kind of falling out of whack.
380
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,920
And especially when you're away
for a period of time and you
381
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,920
come back and you're trying to,
you know, get back on track.
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00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:31,040
But what I love is just is
creating a cadence where you're
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00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,680
starting to see like, OK, I want
to make sure I have these some
384
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,760
conversations that really fill
me up so that those things
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00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:42,120
charge me for the things that I
have to do, like the, you know,
386
00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:46,520
business tasks that may may not
light me up, but then creating
387
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,160
space for those creative things
that also create that that sense
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00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,960
of charging me.
One of the things that I always
389
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,480
tell people, and this is
something I do myself, I take my
390
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,600
own medicine on this, is that I
create structure.
391
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:00,680
I said structure creates
freedom.
392
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,960
So when you create structure
that says here's my block of
393
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,560
time for creativity, here's my
time for connection and and so
394
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,480
on and so forth.
I'm very diligent about those
395
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,720
things because I think what
happens is if you don't, what
396
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,360
happens is you get stuck into
the vortex of e-mail or you get
397
00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:22,760
stuck into the vortex of being
on everyone else's timeline and
398
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,080
not your own.
And then what happens is you
399
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:29,880
lose sight of your priorities.
So I think creating structure is
400
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,040
so critical because it allows
you to operate within that
401
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,840
structure.
Yeah, you're really taking back
402
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,360
control.
Yeah.
403
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,880
One goal we have with this
podcast is to Co create the
404
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,240
Ampersand Manifesto principles
for leading a multi passionate
405
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,880
life.
What are some of the principles
406
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,600
that you live by if?
I were to start with one
407
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,040
principle that I think is really
important for an ampersand is,
408
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:02,960
is to integrate what you know
with what you do.
409
00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:07,520
And what I mean by that is
really the sense of, you know,
410
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,480
they don't have to live
separately.
411
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,040
Integration is where you get to
play and and let them have a
412
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:14,880
little bit of friction from time
to time.
413
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,000
And that friction is where music
gets made.
414
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,200
Tony, it's been so wonderful
talking with you folks.
415
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,440
You can check out Tony's work at
tonymspeaks.com.
416
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,160
I purpose partners.com and you
can find him on LinkedIn and
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00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:33,760
we'll link to these in the show
notes.
418
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,360
If you liked this show, share it
with your friends and fellow
419
00:25:40,360 --> 00:25:44,560
ampersands and make sure to hit
the follow button to be notified
420
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:49,120
when new episodes drop.
It would mean the world to us if
421
00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:51,560
you took two minutes to rate and
review the show.
422
00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:56,720
Just go to the main show page on
Apple Podcasts or Spotify and
423
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,840
look for the stars.
I had a chance to listen back on
424
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,880
my conversation with Tony.
He shared so many words of
425
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,880
wisdom.
Here are a few key takeaways
426
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:11,840
that I had.
One curiosity.
427
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:16,640
As a through line, Tony brought
up the idea of curiosity and
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00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,680
beginner's mindset in several
areas of his work.
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00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:24,600
I particularly liked how he
characterized writing as not
430
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:29,160
having all the answers already,
but as a way of seeking.
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00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,640
And even though writing needs to
sometimes be a solitary
432
00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:38,160
endeavor, it seemed like Tony's
writing really started to flow
433
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when he was in dialogue around
the ideas. 2 Returning to a
434
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childhood passion a couple years
ago, I was gifted a box of stuff
435
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:55,480
from my dad's storage closet.
In the box, I found a book that
436
00:26:55,480 --> 00:27:00,360
I wrote when I was 10 years old.
There was a chapter titled What
437
00:27:00,360 --> 00:27:05,840
I Would Do with a Month of Free
Time, and excitedly I flipped to
438
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,440
it, expecting to read all about
music.
439
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:15,320
Surprisingly, my answers were
swimming and ice skating.
440
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,680
Both of these I returned to in
my 30s and 40s.
441
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,560
I've actually spent the past two
years teaching my kid to skate
442
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,840
and finding a lot of joy in
being back on the ice myself.
443
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,560
It was great validation for me
to see that the love of these
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00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:40,360
activities never died, it was
just dormant for a while. 3 Go
445
00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:45,000
before you're ready.
I'm so inspired by Tony's story
446
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:49,040
about committing to climb Mount
Kilimanjaro before he really
447
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,720
thought it through and then
actually doing it.
448
00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:56,440
I am a big believer in putting
things out into the world.
449
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,560
When you tell someone you're
going to do something, it
450
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:03,880
suddenly becomes more real.
And here's the structure that
451
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,400
Tony followed.
One, commit to the process 2
452
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,920
then take the actions to get
ready.
453
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:17,800
And three, don't do it alone.
Find camaraderie and support in
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00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:18,640
other people.
00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:09,680
We are these black boxes that
are just, you know, walking
2
00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,840
around without really knowing
what's on, what's hidden inside.
3
00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:18,000
And what I came to believe is
that when we find that spark,
4
00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:22,600
the inner light, that's when our
brilliance becomes apparent.
5
00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,880
But we have to be willing to
really do the work to find out
6
00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:30,360
what it is that's missing, what
is not illuminated inside of us
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00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,280
and bring next to the surface.
I'm excited to talk with Tony
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00:00:34,280 --> 00:00:37,080
Martinetti, the Leadership
advisor who helps leaders
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00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,480
navigate complexity without
losing themselves.
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00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:45,520
With over 30 years across high
tech and life sciences, he has
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00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:49,040
worked where innovation,
pressure, and uncertainty
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00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:53,120
collide.
His defining insight brilliance
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00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,000
doesn't disappear in
organizations, it goes dormant
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00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,200
when people are asked to
fragment themselves to perform.
15
00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:04,599
Through inspired purpose
partners, Tony designs
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00:01:04,599 --> 00:01:08,720
experiences that integrate
purpose, presence, creativity,
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00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,160
and connection to drive
meaningful impact.
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00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:17,200
He is the author of Climbing the
Right Mountain and Campfire
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00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:22,200
Lessons for Leaders, host of the
Virtual Campfire Podcast, and a
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00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:26,240
keynote speaker known for
crafting campfire spaces for
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honest, expansive dialogue.
Tony, welcome to the show.
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00:01:31,840 --> 00:01:34,880
Well, thank you so much for
having me here and I'll just say
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00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,720
you are a wonderful guest on my
show, which was just wonderful
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00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,000
to have you on and I'm so
thrilled to be here.
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00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,720
Yeah, it's so nice to be in
conversation with people that
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you admire and you feel kind of
like just mutually in the same
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00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,880
orbit.
And that's exactly how I feel
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about you.
You and I were first introduced
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00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:02,320
by a mutual coach friend, Kathy
Onetto, who is also wonderful.
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00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,400
And you and I also had the
chance to collaborate on an
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article titled The Future of
Leadership is Multifaceted for
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00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:15,320
Fast Company.
And I'm curious, just to start
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off, how do you see multifaceted
leadership coming up in your
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work these days?
Yeah, I mean, for me personally,
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it it's one thing, but what I
see in general, for other people
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it's another.
And I'll kind of explain both.
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You know, for me, it was, you
know, really holding back the
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artistic side of who I was and
seeing it as something that I
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00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,960
didn't, didn't belong in the
work I was doing.
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00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:46,160
Even after coming into the world
of coaching and facilitation and
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00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,920
helping people to learn and
grow, I felt like still
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00:02:49,920 --> 00:02:53,680
something was missing, even
though I had traded my corporate
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00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,320
hat for my independent
facilitator hat.
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And the art part of me, the
artist part of me was still on
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00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,280
the sidelines waiting to be
expressed.
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00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:08,320
But when I did everything
changed the the sense of
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aliveness that I brought into
the room and my own expression,
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but also how I shifted people
completely changed.
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So that's one thing.
But what I also see in other
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people is that people sometimes
get into these patterns where
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they're just kind of going
through the motions and just
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doing their work and they're
performing their title, which
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maybe gets you by for a period
of time.
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But at some point the light
starts to dim and you start
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saying like, why don't I feel a
connection to the work or why am
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I feeling disengaged?
Was because they're leaving half
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of themselves outside or they're
not feeling like they're fully
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expressed in their work.
And so, yeah, that's where I see
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a lot of the people who I work
with is that they feel like
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there's something missing and
that the missing part is them.
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Wow, yeah, I want to get deeper
into this.
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How did you diagnose for
yourself?
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What was the cause?
Right?
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Like I think people sometimes
feel that something's off or
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they're not feeling as alive,
vibrant.
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How did you know for you that
the art, the artist side was a
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00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,320
big part of it?
Yeah.
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I think some of the sometimes
you just like I said, there's an
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autopilot element that goes on.
You just kind of continue to go
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about your business, but you
feel like, OK, you know, I don't
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00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:32,040
know, I feel like there could be
another gear.
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00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:33,920
I mean, you've probably asked
yourself this question.
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I'm sure I'm not alone.
Like thinking, is this it is
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this is all there is to
experience in my work, even when
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you're doing work that you love.
But that sense of maybe
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00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:49,960
existential questioning is what
comes up.
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And you start thinking, I need
to find that other gear.
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And that other gear really comes
from questioning, OK, well, what
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00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:03,120
if I did something different?
What if I were to pivot or
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00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,320
create something different?
And sometimes it's not about
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00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:08,680
leaving the work.
It's about, you know, changing
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the way you look at the work.
And so that's that's how I
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started to see this show up is
the sense of like, I think I
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need something different in this
work.
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Now I'll just point out one
thing this the moment that
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really made me think differently
about this was a visit to a
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museum.
So I'm happy to talk a little
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bit about that if you like.
Yes, please.
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OK, so about two or three years
ago I was in a walking through a
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museum in Salem, MA, the PBD
Essex Museum.
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And it just happened to stumble
across this this exhibit called
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All the Flowers Are for Me,
which is a beautiful, beautiful
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metal carved box that was
hanging from the ceiling in this
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room.
And inside of this box, there is
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nothing's fancy about the box
itself besides like intricate
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00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:04,720
carvings and what have you that
you know, were laser cut I
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guess.
And they put a light inside.
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And when the light shone out,
this pattern, this beautiful
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00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,400
pattern just shines a lot
everywhere, the ceiling, the
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walls across anyone who walks in
the room.
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And so when I walked in, I was
just completely blown away.
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I was like, wow, like this
changes everything.
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I didn't know what it meant, but
I knew at some point it just
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kind of connected to me that
there's this is what we are.
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00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,400
We are these black boxes that
are just, you know, walking
106
00:06:35,400 --> 00:06:38,560
around without really knowing
what's on, what's hidden inside.
107
00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:43,680
And what I came to believe is
that when we find that spark,
108
00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:48,560
the inner light, there's that's
when our brilliance becomes
109
00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:51,560
apparent.
But we have to be willing to
110
00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,680
really do the work to find out
what it is that's missing, what
111
00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,920
is not illuminated inside of us
and bring next to the surface.
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00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:02,040
For me, it happened to be art.
It doesn't have to be art for
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00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,520
everyone, but it could be
something that you're just, you
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00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:10,240
know, you stuff down over layers
and layers of performative work
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that has let you say, OK, well,
this doesn't belong in my
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00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,680
professional life, but that's
where we got it wrong.
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Yeah, this is a great segue into
talking a little bit about your
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book.
So we a couple weeks ago, you
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00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,080
and I finally got a chance to
meet each other in person, which
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00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,720
was so wonderful.
We were at South by Southwest
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where you were launching your
book Illuminating Hidden
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Brilliance.
Talk to us about from that
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00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:49,320
moment, that spark in the museum
to your book, What?
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What was it like working on this
project?
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And yeah, what do you hope
people will get from it?
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Yeah, it's a great question.
First of all, this book, as much
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00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,360
as it's the most important book
to me because I feel like it's
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00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:11,080
it's the strongest message that
I could ever have given as I
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00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:15,000
feel it's important right now.
It's also important for people
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to live the most meaningful life
they can.
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And so for for me, it was a
journey of really embodying
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everything that I had said that
I was missing and, and the, the
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work that I had spent years
trying to figure out what's what
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is missing in my life and then
going on the quest to learn from
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others as to what was missing in
their lives.
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And so through this process, I
feel like this book embodies a
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lot of those elements.
And it took me not as long as I
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00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:49,160
thought to write because I, I
was kind of receiving a lot of
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00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,520
these messages over the period
of time.
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And so when I sat down to write,
it just flowed out of me almost
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like it was like divine
intervention, if you will.
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So, so it worked in that way,
but I will say that I have to
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00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,000
tell people when I when you
write a book, you don't want to
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00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,240
have the questions all answered
in advance.
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00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,520
You let the question be
something that you're really
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00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:16,920
seeking to answer.
And so as I started to put pen
147
00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,320
to paper, things started to
really evolve.
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00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:23,280
I started seeing more parts of
the story and got in dialogue
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00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:25,200
with people and heard more of
their stories.
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00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:28,960
And so the book really evolved
in a very beautiful way.
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So, and I think you yourself
included, I mean really
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wonderful.
And when we got into
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conversation, it helped to
inform like more of the book
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from that so.
Yeah, How did art really come
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00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:48,440
back into your life, and what
does your artistic practice look
156
00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:52,240
like these days?
And it's a, it's a hard balance
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for sure.
I know you can probably relate
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to this, to find that balance
between running a business, you
159
00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:01,360
know, paying the bills and
trying to find time for time for
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00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:05,520
artistic expression.
So for me, it's come back to me
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00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,160
in many different ways #1
glassblowing is a big part of
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00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,840
what I do, which I love.
It's just, there's something
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about the practice that is
really delicate, but yet also
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very, very intricate and, and
surprising when you have this
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00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:21,920
end product, which you don't
know how it's going to end up.
166
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,680
And there's also the elements
you're playing with this, you
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00:10:26,680 --> 00:10:31,240
know, you have the, the sand,
you have the, the, the heat, all
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00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,240
the fire, all the things that
are happening all at once.
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And so you don't like, you got
to be very careful with all
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those things.
It's not something you just play
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with.
So Long story short, that's one
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of them.
The other thing is poetry.
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Now, I had dabbled with poetry a
long time ago, but I just kind
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of like, oh, no big deal.
Not really a thing that I do.
175
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But for me, as I got to this
place where I was having a hard
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00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:55,880
time expressing myself
emotionally, I found poet to be
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A to be a great gateway for the
things that I just couldn't put
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into normal writing.
So I, I really went off and
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started to explore this medium
and spent a lot of time doing
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00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,160
it.
And so I'd probably write at
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00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,560
least a poem a a month, if not
more.
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And it just really comes from
wherever inspiration strikes.
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Wow, I'm really seeing a fire
and light theme with so much of
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your work.
Your podcast is called the
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Virtual Campfire.
You have been hosting it since
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2020 and you're prolific.
You've done well over 300
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00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:36,320
episodes.
I I looked that up.
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What do you hope your listeners
take away from your podcast?
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Yeah, and I, I want to connect
the dots between, you know, this
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illumination and the, the
campfire, which besides the fire
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00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:53,320
element, which is also nice,
There's when I started the
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podcast, I, you know, my whole
journey was, you know, really
193
00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,200
getting into conversation with
people who have been through
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moments in their lives that have
have ignited their gifts into
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their world.
And what I, I really started to
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see as I had these conversations
was that like early days,
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there's, you know, maybe in
childhood or in our early adult
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lives, there are things that we
get into because our, you know,
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almost like our heart pulls us
into it.
200
00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:26,080
And then life gets in the way
and we start to kind of retract
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and fragment and start to do
things that say, oh, well, I
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guess I should be doing
something different because
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that's what I'm being forced
into or being pulled into.
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But then we come back to it.
It's almost like as a rhythm,
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we, you just say, I'm being
pulled back into the thing that
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is most meaningful to me.
Maybe it was a childhood, you
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know, childhood passion that you
had and that becomes comes back.
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And so that's one of the
patterns I saw a lot in the
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people I interviewed.
There's also things that happen
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where a traumatic life event
might just say, hey, look,
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enough is enough.
I need to do something
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different, you know.
So it's really about looking
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back, taking inventory, finding
out what you left behind and
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using that as the medium to
redefine the path forward.
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Let's take a moment to think
about this question.
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What have you left behind that
you might want to bring back
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00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:35,280
into your life?
Are you an Ampersand?
218
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:38,400
Looking for community
inspiration and resources?
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00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:43,200
Come join us in the cohort where
we help you grow and scale your
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00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,240
creative and professional
aspirations.
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00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:49,440
If you're looking for more
dedicated support, ioffer
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00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,800
executive coaching for business
leaders, people managers,
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00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,840
creatives, and of course,
Ampersands.
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00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:59,520
Find out more about the cohort
and one-on-one coaching at
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00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:03,200
jessica1.com.
Now back to the show.
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You are not only involved with
virtual campfires, but also real
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ones.
You've climbed many mountains,
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including summiting Mount
Kilimanjaro, and you shared that
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it wasn't as much about the peak
as much as the process.
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And I I'm curious what metaphors
for leadership and life you
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gained from that experience.
Yeah, I mean, I'll start from
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just the moment of saying go
that I'm going to climb this
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mountain.
It's like it's committing to a
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goal that's bigger than you than
than your current place of where
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you are.
So when I wrote my first book,
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Climbing the Right Mountain,
someone said to me, you know,
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what's the next mountain you're
going to climb?
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What's the next thing you're
going to do?
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And I said to myself, without
even letting my, my mind catch
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up with my heart, Kilimanjaro.
And, and so at that moment, that
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was about a year before I, I
actually went and did it,
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putting that up into the world.
It actually was the, for the
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first time, it cemented in my
mind that that's what I'm going
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to do.
And so I started to do the work
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to train, to make myself prepare
myself for that process.
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But it's first the commitment
that I made.
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And so I think that's a good
lesson for us.
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Sometimes you just have to say,
even if I'm not ready, what can
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I do to say the thing and then
commit to the process.
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So that's what I did.
And then you get on the climb.
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And that climb is, it's
something about the altitude and
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the changes and, and all of the
different adaptability elements
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you have to create for yourself
to say.
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It's not about a, a run up the
mountain though.
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Trust me, there are a lot of
people who are from Tanzania who
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could literally run that
mountain in probably a day just
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because they're so used to it.
But but for the average folk,
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you know, we have to take our
time.
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We have to go slow.
We have to, you know, make sure
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we're pacing ourselves because
if you try to go too fast,
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you're ending, you're going to
end up exhausted and burnt out.
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Isn't that a great metaphor for
business?
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Right.
Yeah, I love that you just said
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yes.
Go before you're ready.
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Yeah, and don't go alone too.
I mean, there's that's the other
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part of this which I didn't
mention, which is that, you
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know, nothing great happens on
your own.
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You know, I may have been
climbing, you know, step by step
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with my own 2 feet.
But there was the encouragement,
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the the camaraderie of the
people who I climbed with that
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really made it all possible.
Yeah.
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You shared with me that one of
your proudest moments was
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leaving a successful corporate
career yourself to step into an
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uncertain path that was more
aligned with who you were
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becoming.
How did you personally realize
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this pivot from when you knew
that it was no longer the right
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path to taking the actionable
steps forward?
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Well.
Fear is a great motivator.
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No, I mean, at, at first there
was this element of like, I, I
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need to take my, my life in my
own hands.
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I need to take my, the, my
destiny in my own hands.
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And because I felt like the the
way things are going weren't
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aligned with who I was being.
And if I wanted to have the life
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that was more fulfilling and
more aligned with who I really
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00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:50,600
was, I needed to do something
different.
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00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,920
And so that's what led me down
this path of taking the leap out
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of the corporate world and
trying something different.
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But I always say in the back of
my mind that like, you know
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what?
Nothing is permanent.
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There's always, there's always a
way back, even though sometimes
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it's not going to be easy and
sometimes there's going to be,
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you know, people will have a
perception of who you are, but
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that's fine.
You know, I think everyone
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thinks that every move you make
is a fine, a final move.
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That's not true.
So as I made that leap out, one
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of the things that I, I
connected to is there's really
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two quotes.
I always think about #1 if
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00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,120
you're feeling, if you're
willing to feel everything, you
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00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:36,880
can have anything That meant
that I need to attach to this,
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00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,440
this feeling of, all right, this
is going to be ups and downs.
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00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:43,720
The emotional roller coaster of
starting something new is, is a
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00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,680
real thing.
And it, it lasts me longer than
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00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:52,960
I thought and still does.
But that expectation of the ups
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00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,600
and downs is what makes the
journey worth it.
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00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:58,880
Because if it was all just a,
you know, everything's great,
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00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,080
then you're not going to really
enjoy the, the fruits of that
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00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,760
labor.
You know, that's one.
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00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,280
The other thing was this quote
that I don't know where it came
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00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:13,640
from, but that amateurs compete
and professionals create.
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00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:19,040
And that has driven my mindset
around how do I get in community
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with the right people who are
even, you know, people who are
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00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,480
peers, people who are in the
same industry and doing the same
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00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:30,480
thing, learning from them at
humbly, but also sharing with
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00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,000
them so that we don't have to
always be thinking how do I beat
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00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,600
them to the to the punch, but
instead, how do we build a
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00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:42,240
bigger pie?
And you have built a lot of that
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00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,320
pie.
You're, you're a tremendous
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00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,920
creator in terms of writing your
podcast.
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00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,920
How do you cultivate your
creativity?
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00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,080
And, and I think by creativity,
I mean both the being creative
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00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:00,360
side and also just the creating,
getting, getting the words out
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00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:03,480
there, getting the stories out
there.
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00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:07,600
Yeah, I mean, I'm going to use
the cliche term of I collect a
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00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,040
ton of dots and then I connect
them later.
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00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,640
You know, there's just a, you
know, life is like, you know, as
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00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,360
you're navigating through your
day, as you're walking around
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00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:21,080
the streets, going to museums,
wherever you're going, there's,
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00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,000
there's inspiration everywhere
if you're willing to actually
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00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,800
open your eyes and see it.
And so I am like doing that even
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00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:31,520
in, in sessions with clients,
you know, I'm collecting
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00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:35,520
information that I'm like,
that's an interesting insight.
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00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:37,960
I don't know where that's going
to land yet, but I'm going to,
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00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,920
I'm going to take it in.
And when I do, then I have some
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00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:47,080
time usually on a weekend.
Why I call them my weekly spark.
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00:20:47,520 --> 00:20:51,000
And in that weekly spark, I'm
organizing myself around what's
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00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,160
next.
But I'm also looking back and
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I'm saying what happened and
I'm, I'm trying to also look at
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00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,840
what are the threads that I want
to pull deeper and which ones do
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00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:04,360
I want to say like, oh, maybe
later, you know, so that
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00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,640
organizing is about really
connecting dots that are
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necessary to, to, to take
something deeper.
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Yeah, lots of synthesis,
reflection.
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I love it.
And I'm glad you said that word
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synthesis 'cause I think that's,
that's the thing that people who
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00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:24,520
really are great creators are,
are able to do synthesize really
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00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,720
well.
They don't have to be all
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00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,280
original all the time.
It's sometimes it's like taking
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00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,680
from elements that they seem
like, oh, you know, would it be
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00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,640
so cool if you were to combine
like, you know, a Mozart piece
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00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,440
with like Metallica and like
whatever, you know, see what
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00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:41,320
happens.
You know, that's a probably a
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00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:42,760
bad example, but you know what I
mean.
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The fun and interesting mash ups
that maybe haven't been done
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00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:52,200
before.
What do you think ties together
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00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,520
all of your work, from
leadership advising and speaking
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00:21:56,520 --> 00:21:59,960
to being an artist and an
explorer and running your
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00:21:59,960 --> 00:22:03,720
podcast?
Yeah, I think that the constant
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00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:05,280
thread and there's two things
I'll say.
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00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:10,160
First of all, the the reality
that there's always more to
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explore and there's always, you
know, something that I can
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00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:17,320
learn.
So that beginners mindset of,
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00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,560
you know, knowing that I'm far
from having all the answers.
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00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,760
And whenever like people say
like, oh, you know, I love that
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00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,880
insight or love your insights,
whatever, whatever I'm like,
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00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:28,680
that's great.
And I'm not trying to diminish
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00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,640
that.
I'll, I'll take the, the, the,
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00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,720
the recognition, but I'm always
feeling like, you know, there's
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00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:40,280
so much more that to, to, to
uncover here.
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00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:44,920
And so I'm always feeling like a
beginner on everything that I'm
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00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:50,200
doing so.
And on a practical level, how do
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00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,520
you think about the work that
you're doing in terms of your
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00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,200
time and energy?
It sounds like you make the time
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00:22:56,200 --> 00:23:00,160
to reflect every week.
What about your your weekdays?
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00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,880
Like what do they look like?
Well, I mean, not always fun,
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00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,160
but you know, I just like, no, I
don't mean it like that.
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00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,320
I mean it's it's I have my crazy
weeks for sure.
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00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,680
And, you know, especially when
there's fires that you put out,
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00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,960
as, you know, running a business
can often be that way when you
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00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,960
have things that have, you know,
kind of falling out of whack.
380
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,920
And especially when you're away
for a period of time and you
381
00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:26,920
come back and you're trying to,
you know, get back on track.
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00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:31,040
But what I love is just is
creating a cadence where you're
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00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,680
starting to see like, OK, I want
to make sure I have these some
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00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,760
conversations that really fill
me up so that those things
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00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:42,120
charge me for the things that I
have to do, like the, you know,
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00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:46,520
business tasks that may may not
light me up, but then creating
387
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,160
space for those creative things
that also create that that sense
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00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,960
of charging me.
One of the things that I always
389
00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,480
tell people, and this is
something I do myself, I take my
390
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:58,600
own medicine on this, is that I
create structure.
391
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:00,680
I said structure creates
freedom.
392
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:03,960
So when you create structure
that says here's my block of
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00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:08,560
time for creativity, here's my
time for connection and and so
394
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:11,480
on and so forth.
I'm very diligent about those
395
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,720
things because I think what
happens is if you don't, what
396
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:18,360
happens is you get stuck into
the vortex of e-mail or you get
397
00:24:18,360 --> 00:24:22,760
stuck into the vortex of being
on everyone else's timeline and
398
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,080
not your own.
And then what happens is you
399
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:29,880
lose sight of your priorities.
So I think creating structure is
400
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,040
so critical because it allows
you to operate within that
401
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:35,840
structure.
Yeah, you're really taking back
402
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,360
control.
Yeah.
403
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,880
One goal we have with this
podcast is to Co create the
404
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:47,240
Ampersand Manifesto principles
for leading a multi passionate
405
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:49,880
life.
What are some of the principles
406
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,600
that you live by if?
I were to start with one
407
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:57,040
principle that I think is really
important for an ampersand is,
408
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:02,960
is to integrate what you know
with what you do.
409
00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:07,520
And what I mean by that is
really the sense of, you know,
410
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,480
they don't have to live
separately.
411
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,040
Integration is where you get to
play and and let them have a
412
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:14,880
little bit of friction from time
to time.
413
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:19,000
And that friction is where music
gets made.
414
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:24,200
Tony, it's been so wonderful
talking with you folks.
415
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:27,440
You can check out Tony's work at
tonymspeaks.com.
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00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:32,160
I purpose partners.com and you
can find him on LinkedIn and
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00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:33,760
we'll link to these in the show
notes.
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00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,360
If you liked this show, share it
with your friends and fellow
419
00:25:40,360 --> 00:25:44,560
ampersands and make sure to hit
the follow button to be notified
420
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:49,120
when new episodes drop.
It would mean the world to us if
421
00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:51,560
you took two minutes to rate and
review the show.
422
00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:56,720
Just go to the main show page on
Apple Podcasts or Spotify and
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00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,840
look for the stars.
I had a chance to listen back on
424
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,880
my conversation with Tony.
He shared so many words of
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wisdom.
Here are a few key takeaways
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that I had.
One curiosity.
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As a through line, Tony brought
up the idea of curiosity and
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beginner's mindset in several
areas of his work.
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I particularly liked how he
characterized writing as not
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having all the answers already,
but as a way of seeking.
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00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:33,640
And even though writing needs to
sometimes be a solitary
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endeavor, it seemed like Tony's
writing really started to flow
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when he was in dialogue around
the ideas. 2 Returning to a
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childhood passion a couple years
ago, I was gifted a box of stuff
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from my dad's storage closet.
In the box, I found a book that
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I wrote when I was 10 years old.
There was a chapter titled What
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00:27:00,360 --> 00:27:05,840
I Would Do with a Month of Free
Time, and excitedly I flipped to
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it, expecting to read all about
music.
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00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:15,320
Surprisingly, my answers were
swimming and ice skating.
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00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,680
Both of these I returned to in
my 30s and 40s.
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00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,560
I've actually spent the past two
years teaching my kid to skate
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00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,840
and finding a lot of joy in
being back on the ice myself.
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It was great validation for me
to see that the love of these
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activities never died, it was
just dormant for a while. 3 Go
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00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:45,000
before you're ready.
I'm so inspired by Tony's story
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about committing to climb Mount
Kilimanjaro before he really
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00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,720
thought it through and then
actually doing it.
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00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:56,440
I am a big believer in putting
things out into the world.
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When you tell someone you're
going to do something, it
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suddenly becomes more real.
And here's the structure that
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Tony followed.
One, commit to the process 2
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then take the actions to get
ready.
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And three, don't do it alone.
Find camaraderie and support in
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other people.
