Dec. 10, 2025
More Than a Podcast: 5 Ideas for the Ampersand Movement
What if your creativity, your curiosity, and your multidimensional identity aren’t distractions…but your superpower?
In this episode, Jessica shares her 2025 year-end reflection and the five Big Ideas at the heart of The Ampersand Manifesto. After more than 50 interviews with multipassionate leaders, creators, and innovators, she explores what it really means to live and lead as an Ampersand. Ampersand is more than just a podcast – it’s a movement.
Whether you’re a creative professional, a hybrid leader, a scientist-musician, a founder-artist, or simply someone who refuses to fit into one box, this episode will speak to you.
Jessica dives into how…
- Creativity is essential, not optional, and why it matters in every field
- Value isn’t only financial – and how to reconnect with what actually gives meaning
- Everyone has Ampersand potential
- Amateurs deserve a rebrand, grounded in the original meaning: “one who loves”
- The Ampersand life is a future-of-work advantage, especially in a rapidly changing world
Resources:
Creative Machines: Art, AI & Us by Dr. Maya Ackerman
The Portfolio Life by Christina Wallace
We want to hear from you! Which Big Idea resonated most with you?
Leave us a voicemail at theampersandmanifesto.com/voicemail or email j@jessicawan.com.
If you want a place to explore these ideas with other Ampersands, come join The Cohort, an online community for multipassionate humans. You can find out more at https://www.kristinalibby.com/the-cohort.
We'll be back in 2026 for Season 5 with more Ampersand interviews, more insights, and more inspiration!
~
Are you a high achiever, a leader, or an Ampersand looking for a sounding board? Jessica helps executives, leaders, and founders like you gain clarity and lead bravely. As your trusted advisor and growth partner, she works with you to make the invisible visible and develop an action plan to fulfill your goals.
For nearly two decades, Jessica led marketing teams, launched products, and grew businesses at places like Apple, the San Francisco Opera, Smule, and Magoosh – while also building a performing career as a singer. As an Ampersand in many facets, she knows personally what it’s like to hold many roles simultaneously, to sit on the executive team, and to find fulfillment. With a BA in Music and a BS in Product Design from Stanford, coupled with an MBA from UC Berkeley and coach training from the Center for Executive Coaching, her unique mix of analytical & creative allows her to bring both depth and breadth of perspective into the coaching process.
As a coach, Jessica works to champion you – the full, multifaceted you – so you can thrive.
Visit jessicawan.com or BOOK AN INTRO CALL: https://calendly.com/jessicawancoaching/intro-call-coaching
Credits
Produced and Hosted by Jessica Wan
Co-produced, edited, sound design, and original music by Carlos Schmitt
Want to support this show in a small way? Rate and review it at theampersandmanifesto.com, or buy me a coffee: coff.ee/jessicawan
Transcript
1
00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:09,760
Have you ever felt like you live
in two worlds?
2
00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:14,640
You're leading teams at a tech
company by day, but at night
3
00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:16,880
you're choreographing dance
pieces.
4
00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:23,160
Or you're a venture capitalist
who's also producing music, or
5
00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:31,040
an engineer who performs opera?
You're not alone and you're not
6
00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:35,040
weird.
Welcome to the Ampersand
7
00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:39,040
Manifesto, the podcast for
people who make their mark in
8
00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,840
multiple fields.
I'm Jessica Watt and after 50
9
00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:48,040
interviews with Multi Passionate
Ampersands, I'm sharing the
10
00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:53,480
manifesto, why we keep doing
what we do even when it's hard,
11
00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,960
and what it means for how we
live, lead and create.
12
00:01:07,960 --> 00:01:10,560
From the beginning, I've
envisioned The Ampersand
13
00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,160
Manifesto as more than a
podcast.
14
00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,800
I see it as a catalyst for a
movement.
15
00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,560
A movement about living out your
interests fully, finding the
16
00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,520
connections between disciplines
and fields, and contributing to
17
00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,480
the world in ways that are
unique to you.
18
00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,880
Today, as a part of my year end
reflection, I want to explore
19
00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:38,280
with you some big ideas at the
heart of the Ampersand movement.
20
00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,080
Ideas that I think aren't talked
about enough that can
21
00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,000
fundamentally change how you
think about your work, your
22
00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,080
passions, and the life you want
to live.
23
00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:57,240
Here's the first big idea.
Creativity is essential, not
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00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:02,720
optional.
Why do we as a society so often
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00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:08,680
treat creative pursuits as
hobbies or extras when so much
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00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:14,120
of our work and our lives depend
on our ability to be creative?
27
00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:19,800
Even if you think your day job
doesn't look creative, say you
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00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,840
work in finance or healthcare or
law or another traditional
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industry.
You are constantly solving
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problems, imagining solutions
and connecting ideas.
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That is creativity in action.
Creativity is an innately human
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quality.
I'm reminded of Doctor Maya
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00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,480
Ackerman who we interviewed in
Season 3.
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00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:54,040
She's an AI researcher, Co
founder and CEO of Wave, AIA,
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00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:58,400
singer and songwriter and
pianist, and the author of
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00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:02,360
Creative Machines, one of my
favorite books that I read this
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00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,720
year.
Maya's perspective on creativity
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00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:11,560
is inspiring, she says.
Quote No matter how much I work
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with AI, the real world always
calls me back.
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Back to the resonance of my
piano.
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00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,800
Back to the texture of paint
under my fingernails.
42
00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,960
Because at the core of it all,
this world, the physical,
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00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,440
sensory human world, is what
life is about.
44
00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:36,880
Maya's work operates under this
assumption that AI is not here
45
00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,840
to replace humans.
It's here to partner with humans
46
00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:45,800
and to enhance what makes us the
most human, our creativity.
47
00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:51,240
And each of us has that
potential fundamentally inside
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of us to solve problems in new
ways, to think beyond the
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00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:59,880
obvious, and to make something
that didn't exist before that's
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00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:05,840
novel and valuable.
And Speaking of valuable, let's
51
00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,720
talk about something I think a
lot of us wrestle with.
52
00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:19,760
Big idea #2 There's more to
value than financial value.
53
00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:26,200
Work is not the same as value,
and value is not the same as
54
00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,480
meaning.
Last year I had the chance to
55
00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:33,920
talk with Christina Wallace.
She wrote The Portfolio Life,
56
00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:39,160
and she lives her portfolio life
fully as a senior lecturer at
57
00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,720
Harvard Business School, a
serial entrepreneur, and a
58
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,440
Broadway investor, among other
roles.
59
00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:51,440
She encourages us to define work
by what gives us meaning, not
60
00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,000
just what pays the bills.
One of the core tenets of her
61
00:04:55,000 --> 00:05:00,240
book Quote You are more than
anyone, role or opportunity.
62
00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:06,480
I agree 100%.
I'll be honest, I'm still
63
00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,920
untangling myself from equating
money with worth.
64
00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:15,000
I spent almost 20 years climbing
the corporate ladder, chasing
65
00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,320
the next title, promotion and
compensation.
66
00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,200
One of the main ways I measured
that I was doing a good job.
67
00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,840
Over time, I've had to unlearn
this mindset again and again.
68
00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:32,120
Even now, I sometimes catch
myself thinking, what if this
69
00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:33,920
thing I'm doing doesn't make
money?
70
00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:36,720
Is it valuable?
Is it worth it?
71
00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:44,440
The answer, I keep discovering
is yes, because there's more to
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00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:48,800
value than financial value.
Here's the key insight.
73
00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:56,280
Value isn't the same as values.
Alongside financial stability,
74
00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:02,280
my core values include learning,
contribution, beauty, joy, and
75
00:06:02,280 --> 00:06:05,240
the helping others.
The work that nourishes
76
00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,880
curiosity, sparks creativity,
and helps others.
77
00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:12,360
That is what truly matters and
holds value.
78
00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,880
Living this way isn't
theoretical for me, it's an
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00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:22,000
ongoing practice.
It's central to what it means to
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00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:26,840
live an ampersand life.
This brings me to one of the
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00:06:26,840 --> 00:06:30,000
questions I get asked more than
any other question.
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00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:41,560
Big idea #3 ampersand potential.
Everyone has it, but if you want
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00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:48,120
it depends on you.
People often ask me is everyone
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00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,920
in ampersand?
It's really the most common
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00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,560
question I get asked, and
honestly I've never been fully
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00:06:55,560 --> 00:07:00,880
satisfied with my own answer.
Here's the thing, the term
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00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:06,080
ampersand isn't meant to put
anyone in a box or force a yes
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00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,120
no answer.
That's really the opposite of
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00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:14,040
the point.
The term ampersand is a name for
90
00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,360
a way of living, a way for
people who are curious about
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00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,960
exploring multiple dimensions of
themselves to feel seen,
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00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:25,880
understood, and inspired.
So is everyone an ampersand?
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00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,280
No.
But could you identify with the
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00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:30,640
term?
If it serves you?
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00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:35,640
Absolutely.
I've heard from so many guests
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00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,440
that simply naming this multi
passionate part of themselves
97
00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:44,320
has led to deeper acceptance and
a stronger sense of what matters
98
00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:48,200
to them.
The truth is, everyone has the
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00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,960
potential to live a life that
reflects multiple parts of
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00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:55,280
themselves.
You have to notice it, nurture
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it, and give yourself permission
to explore.
102
00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,240
While we're on the topic of
exploring what we love, let's
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00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,440
talk about one of the most
misunderstood terms in the
104
00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:17,560
creative world.
Here's big idea #4 amateurs are
105
00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:23,720
not lesser than professionals.
How many times have you heard
106
00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:30,120
the word amateur used as a dis?
People assume amateurs are less
107
00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,880
skilled, inexperienced, or in
over their heads.
108
00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,159
But wait a minute, let's take a
step back.
109
00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:45,960
The word amateur comes from the
Latin word amateur, meaning one
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00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:50,680
who loves.
It's not a lesser version of
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00:08:50,680 --> 00:08:54,120
professional.
Both amateurs and professional
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00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,240
are driven by passion, curiosity
and joy.
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00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,880
The main difference where the
money comes from what pays the
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00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:06,760
bills, Which, if you think about
it, is a strange fixation that
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00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:11,480
doesn't truly capture talent,
creativity or contribution.
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00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:18,400
I think of Percy Liang, who we
interviewed in Season 2.
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00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:23,440
He's a highly accomplished
pianist who doesn't make his
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00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,480
living from music.
He's a computer science
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00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,760
professor at Stanford.
Some of the most incredible
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00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,800
musicians I've had the honor of
hearing or collaborating with
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00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:39,560
wouldn't qualify as professional
in the traditional sense, yet
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00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:45,360
their artistry and commitment is
extraordinary and professional
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00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,800
level.
One of my favorite recent
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00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:54,480
moments was watching Michelle
Wu, Mayor of Boston, perform
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00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:59,360
piano with yo-yo Ma.
Talk about one who loves.
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00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:04,280
Seeing her play gave me an even
deeper sense of who she is as a
127
00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:08,480
leader.
The point is, the world isn't
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00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,480
black and white.
Between amateur and
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00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:14,800
professional, there are many
Shades of Grey, and those shades
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00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:19,760
are where creativity, innovation
and fulfillment often live.
131
00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:27,240
And boy do we need those Shades
of Grey, because what work looks
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00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:32,840
like is rapidly changing.
Here's the fifth big idea for
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00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:40,800
today, the ampersand.
Life is an advantage for the
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00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,920
future of work.
The notion that work follows a
135
00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:49,320
linear ladder, Pick a lane,
specialize, climb step by step.
136
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,440
That's unraveling.
This year I had the opportunity
137
00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,320
to co-author an article for Fast
Company with my friend Tony
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00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,600
Martin Yeti.
We believe that increasingly
139
00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:07,520
complex, fast changing global
dynamics demand leaders who are
140
00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:12,440
adaptive, integrative, and truly
multifaceted.
141
00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:18,240
Think about it.
In today's world, AI, economic
142
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:23,560
shifts, hybrid work structures,
and continuous change mean that
143
00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:26,880
narrow specializations often
won't cut it.
144
00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:32,000
Instead, the leaders most likely
to thrive are those who can move
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00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,760
across disciplines and connect
across worlds.
146
00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,720
That's exactly what the
Ampersand Life is about.
147
00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:44,400
We built this podcast, this
movement for people who live in
148
00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,400
more than one world.
We believe that being multi
149
00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:51,520
passionate is not a liability in
a changing work landscape.
150
00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:57,360
It's an advantage.
For me personally, this means
151
00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,560
always acknowledging every part
of my identity, business
152
00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:05,880
executive coach, creative,
apparent, a human being.
153
00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:10,040
It means leaning to my multi
passionate reality as a source
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00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:14,280
of strength.
And I invite you to do the same.
155
00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,840
So I want to ask you, as the
world of work keeps changing,
156
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,560
how will you show up?
What part of your multifaceted
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00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:28,480
self will you bring forward not
just for career success, but for
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00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:34,280
meaning, creativity, impact, and
a life well lived?
159
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:42,840
Here's a summary of the big
ideas in my 2025 year end
160
00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:48,040
reflection 1.
Creativity is essential, not
161
00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:53,240
optional. 2, value isn't only
financial.
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00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,800
Three, everyone has ampersand
potential.
163
00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:03,480
Four, amateurs aren't lesser,
they are ones who love.
164
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:08,760
And five, the ampersand life is
an advantage for the future of
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00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,240
work.
I'd love to know what resonates
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00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,560
with you from this episode.
Leave me a voicemail at the
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00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:20,360
ampersandmanifesto.com/voicemail
or send me an e-mail at
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00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:25,120
j@jessicawan.com.
And if you want a place to
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00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:29,880
discuss these sorts of ideas, to
be around other ampersands and
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00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:35,480
find people like you, check out
The Cohort, an online community
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00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:37,000
that I've been part of this
year.
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00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,440
I'm taking on a leadership role
starting this month and would
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00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,440
love to continue the
conversation with you there.
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00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:46,600
I'll drop a link in the show
notes.
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00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:53,480
We'll be back in early 2026 with
Season 5 as the Ampersand
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00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:57,560
Manifesto and the Ampersand
Movement grows.
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00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:02,440
Stay tuned for more interviews,
insights, and inspiration.
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00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:06,000
Have a peaceful and safe holiday
season.
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00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,880
If you liked this show, share it
with your friends and fellow
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00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,800
ampersands and make sure to hit
the follow button to be notified
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00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:21,160
when new episodes drop.
It would mean the world to us if
182
00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,560
you took two minutes to rate and
review the show.
183
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:29,000
Just go to the main show page on
Apple Podcasts or Spotify and
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00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:30,360
look for the stars.
00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:09,760
Have you ever felt like you live
in two worlds?
2
00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:14,640
You're leading teams at a tech
company by day, but at night
3
00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:16,880
you're choreographing dance
pieces.
4
00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:23,160
Or you're a venture capitalist
who's also producing music, or
5
00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:31,040
an engineer who performs opera?
You're not alone and you're not
6
00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:35,040
weird.
Welcome to the Ampersand
7
00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:39,040
Manifesto, the podcast for
people who make their mark in
8
00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,840
multiple fields.
I'm Jessica Watt and after 50
9
00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:48,040
interviews with Multi Passionate
Ampersands, I'm sharing the
10
00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:53,480
manifesto, why we keep doing
what we do even when it's hard,
11
00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:57,960
and what it means for how we
live, lead and create.
12
00:01:07,960 --> 00:01:10,560
From the beginning, I've
envisioned The Ampersand
13
00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,160
Manifesto as more than a
podcast.
14
00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,800
I see it as a catalyst for a
movement.
15
00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,560
A movement about living out your
interests fully, finding the
16
00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,520
connections between disciplines
and fields, and contributing to
17
00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,480
the world in ways that are
unique to you.
18
00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,880
Today, as a part of my year end
reflection, I want to explore
19
00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:38,280
with you some big ideas at the
heart of the Ampersand movement.
20
00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,080
Ideas that I think aren't talked
about enough that can
21
00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,000
fundamentally change how you
think about your work, your
22
00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:47,080
passions, and the life you want
to live.
23
00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:57,240
Here's the first big idea.
Creativity is essential, not
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00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:02,720
optional.
Why do we as a society so often
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00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:08,680
treat creative pursuits as
hobbies or extras when so much
26
00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:14,120
of our work and our lives depend
on our ability to be creative?
27
00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:19,800
Even if you think your day job
doesn't look creative, say you
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00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,840
work in finance or healthcare or
law or another traditional
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00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,960
industry.
You are constantly solving
30
00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:32,360
problems, imagining solutions
and connecting ideas.
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00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:42,000
That is creativity in action.
Creativity is an innately human
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00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,720
quality.
I'm reminded of Doctor Maya
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00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,480
Ackerman who we interviewed in
Season 3.
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00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:54,040
She's an AI researcher, Co
founder and CEO of Wave, AIA,
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00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:58,400
singer and songwriter and
pianist, and the author of
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00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:02,360
Creative Machines, one of my
favorite books that I read this
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00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,720
year.
Maya's perspective on creativity
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00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:11,560
is inspiring, she says.
Quote No matter how much I work
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00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,520
with AI, the real world always
calls me back.
40
00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:18,280
Back to the resonance of my
piano.
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00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,800
Back to the texture of paint
under my fingernails.
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00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,960
Because at the core of it all,
this world, the physical,
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00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,440
sensory human world, is what
life is about.
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00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:36,880
Maya's work operates under this
assumption that AI is not here
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00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,840
to replace humans.
It's here to partner with humans
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00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:45,800
and to enhance what makes us the
most human, our creativity.
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00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:51,240
And each of us has that
potential fundamentally inside
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00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:55,560
of us to solve problems in new
ways, to think beyond the
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00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:59,880
obvious, and to make something
that didn't exist before that's
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00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:05,840
novel and valuable.
And Speaking of valuable, let's
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00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,720
talk about something I think a
lot of us wrestle with.
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00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:19,760
Big idea #2 There's more to
value than financial value.
53
00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:26,200
Work is not the same as value,
and value is not the same as
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00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:29,480
meaning.
Last year I had the chance to
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00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:33,920
talk with Christina Wallace.
She wrote The Portfolio Life,
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00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:39,160
and she lives her portfolio life
fully as a senior lecturer at
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00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:42,720
Harvard Business School, a
serial entrepreneur, and a
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00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,440
Broadway investor, among other
roles.
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00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:51,440
She encourages us to define work
by what gives us meaning, not
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00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:55,000
just what pays the bills.
One of the core tenets of her
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00:04:55,000 --> 00:05:00,240
book Quote You are more than
anyone, role or opportunity.
62
00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:06,480
I agree 100%.
I'll be honest, I'm still
63
00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:09,920
untangling myself from equating
money with worth.
64
00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:15,000
I spent almost 20 years climbing
the corporate ladder, chasing
65
00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,320
the next title, promotion and
compensation.
66
00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,200
One of the main ways I measured
that I was doing a good job.
67
00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,840
Over time, I've had to unlearn
this mindset again and again.
68
00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:32,120
Even now, I sometimes catch
myself thinking, what if this
69
00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:33,920
thing I'm doing doesn't make
money?
70
00:05:34,320 --> 00:05:36,720
Is it valuable?
Is it worth it?
71
00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:44,440
The answer, I keep discovering
is yes, because there's more to
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00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:48,800
value than financial value.
Here's the key insight.
73
00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:56,280
Value isn't the same as values.
Alongside financial stability,
74
00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:02,280
my core values include learning,
contribution, beauty, joy, and
75
00:06:02,280 --> 00:06:05,240
the helping others.
The work that nourishes
76
00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,880
curiosity, sparks creativity,
and helps others.
77
00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:12,360
That is what truly matters and
holds value.
78
00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,880
Living this way isn't
theoretical for me, it's an
79
00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:22,000
ongoing practice.
It's central to what it means to
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00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:26,840
live an ampersand life.
This brings me to one of the
81
00:06:26,840 --> 00:06:30,000
questions I get asked more than
any other question.
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00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:41,560
Big idea #3 ampersand potential.
Everyone has it, but if you want
83
00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:48,120
it depends on you.
People often ask me is everyone
84
00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,920
in ampersand?
It's really the most common
85
00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:55,560
question I get asked, and
honestly I've never been fully
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00:06:55,560 --> 00:07:00,880
satisfied with my own answer.
Here's the thing, the term
87
00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:06,080
ampersand isn't meant to put
anyone in a box or force a yes
88
00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,120
no answer.
That's really the opposite of
89
00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:14,040
the point.
The term ampersand is a name for
90
00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,360
a way of living, a way for
people who are curious about
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00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,960
exploring multiple dimensions of
themselves to feel seen,
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00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:25,880
understood, and inspired.
So is everyone an ampersand?
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00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:29,280
No.
But could you identify with the
94
00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:30,640
term?
If it serves you?
95
00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:35,640
Absolutely.
I've heard from so many guests
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00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,440
that simply naming this multi
passionate part of themselves
97
00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:44,320
has led to deeper acceptance and
a stronger sense of what matters
98
00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:48,200
to them.
The truth is, everyone has the
99
00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,960
potential to live a life that
reflects multiple parts of
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00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:55,280
themselves.
You have to notice it, nurture
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00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,800
it, and give yourself permission
to explore.
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00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:04,240
While we're on the topic of
exploring what we love, let's
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00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,440
talk about one of the most
misunderstood terms in the
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00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:17,560
creative world.
Here's big idea #4 amateurs are
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00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:23,720
not lesser than professionals.
How many times have you heard
106
00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:30,120
the word amateur used as a dis?
People assume amateurs are less
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00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,880
skilled, inexperienced, or in
over their heads.
108
00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,159
But wait a minute, let's take a
step back.
109
00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:45,960
The word amateur comes from the
Latin word amateur, meaning one
110
00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:50,680
who loves.
It's not a lesser version of
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00:08:50,680 --> 00:08:54,120
professional.
Both amateurs and professional
112
00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:57,240
are driven by passion, curiosity
and joy.
113
00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:01,880
The main difference where the
money comes from what pays the
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00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:06,760
bills, Which, if you think about
it, is a strange fixation that
115
00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:11,480
doesn't truly capture talent,
creativity or contribution.
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00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:18,400
I think of Percy Liang, who we
interviewed in Season 2.
117
00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:23,440
He's a highly accomplished
pianist who doesn't make his
118
00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:26,480
living from music.
He's a computer science
119
00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,760
professor at Stanford.
Some of the most incredible
120
00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:34,800
musicians I've had the honor of
hearing or collaborating with
121
00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:39,560
wouldn't qualify as professional
in the traditional sense, yet
122
00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:45,360
their artistry and commitment is
extraordinary and professional
123
00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:49,800
level.
One of my favorite recent
124
00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:54,480
moments was watching Michelle
Wu, Mayor of Boston, perform
125
00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:59,360
piano with yo-yo Ma.
Talk about one who loves.
126
00:09:59,920 --> 00:10:04,280
Seeing her play gave me an even
deeper sense of who she is as a
127
00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:08,480
leader.
The point is, the world isn't
128
00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:10,480
black and white.
Between amateur and
129
00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:14,800
professional, there are many
Shades of Grey, and those shades
130
00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:19,760
are where creativity, innovation
and fulfillment often live.
131
00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:27,240
And boy do we need those Shades
of Grey, because what work looks
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00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:32,840
like is rapidly changing.
Here's the fifth big idea for
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00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:40,800
today, the ampersand.
Life is an advantage for the
134
00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,920
future of work.
The notion that work follows a
135
00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:49,320
linear ladder, Pick a lane,
specialize, climb step by step.
136
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:54,440
That's unraveling.
This year I had the opportunity
137
00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:58,320
to co-author an article for Fast
Company with my friend Tony
138
00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,600
Martin Yeti.
We believe that increasingly
139
00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:07,520
complex, fast changing global
dynamics demand leaders who are
140
00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:12,440
adaptive, integrative, and truly
multifaceted.
141
00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:18,240
Think about it.
In today's world, AI, economic
142
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:23,560
shifts, hybrid work structures,
and continuous change mean that
143
00:11:23,560 --> 00:11:26,880
narrow specializations often
won't cut it.
144
00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:32,000
Instead, the leaders most likely
to thrive are those who can move
145
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,760
across disciplines and connect
across worlds.
146
00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,720
That's exactly what the
Ampersand Life is about.
147
00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:44,400
We built this podcast, this
movement for people who live in
148
00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,400
more than one world.
We believe that being multi
149
00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:51,520
passionate is not a liability in
a changing work landscape.
150
00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:57,360
It's an advantage.
For me personally, this means
151
00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,560
always acknowledging every part
of my identity, business
152
00:12:01,560 --> 00:12:05,880
executive coach, creative,
apparent, a human being.
153
00:12:06,560 --> 00:12:10,040
It means leaning to my multi
passionate reality as a source
154
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:14,280
of strength.
And I invite you to do the same.
155
00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:19,840
So I want to ask you, as the
world of work keeps changing,
156
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,560
how will you show up?
What part of your multifaceted
157
00:12:23,560 --> 00:12:28,480
self will you bring forward not
just for career success, but for
158
00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:34,280
meaning, creativity, impact, and
a life well lived?
159
00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:42,840
Here's a summary of the big
ideas in my 2025 year end
160
00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:48,040
reflection 1.
Creativity is essential, not
161
00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:53,240
optional. 2, value isn't only
financial.
162
00:12:54,000 --> 00:12:57,800
Three, everyone has ampersand
potential.
163
00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:03,480
Four, amateurs aren't lesser,
they are ones who love.
164
00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:08,760
And five, the ampersand life is
an advantage for the future of
165
00:13:08,760 --> 00:13:12,240
work.
I'd love to know what resonates
166
00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,560
with you from this episode.
Leave me a voicemail at the
167
00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:20,360
ampersandmanifesto.com/voicemail
or send me an e-mail at
168
00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:25,120
j@jessicawan.com.
And if you want a place to
169
00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:29,880
discuss these sorts of ideas, to
be around other ampersands and
170
00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:35,480
find people like you, check out
The Cohort, an online community
171
00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:37,000
that I've been part of this
year.
172
00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,440
I'm taking on a leadership role
starting this month and would
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00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,440
love to continue the
conversation with you there.
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00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:46,600
I'll drop a link in the show
notes.
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00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:53,480
We'll be back in early 2026 with
Season 5 as the Ampersand
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00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:57,560
Manifesto and the Ampersand
Movement grows.
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00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:02,440
Stay tuned for more interviews,
insights, and inspiration.
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00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:06,000
Have a peaceful and safe holiday
season.
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00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,880
If you liked this show, share it
with your friends and fellow
180
00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,800
ampersands and make sure to hit
the follow button to be notified
181
00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:21,160
when new episodes drop.
It would mean the world to us if
182
00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:23,560
you took two minutes to rate and
review the show.
183
00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:29,000
Just go to the main show page on
Apple Podcasts or Spotify and
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look for the stars.
